Q: “At one point you told one of your Zen teachers, ‘Vodou and Zen are the same.’ It didn’t resonate for your teacher.”
A: “When you’re doing the rituals and practices of Vodou, just like in Zen, you’re discovering life and discovering yourself. That’s the link between the two. Vodou embraces all of life, just like Zen. It has the same principles as Zen. What’s different are the specific rituals and ceremonies, and how you come to understand nature and life. A lot of the Vodou dances are about protection, upholding a wholesome good life, healing. It’s always made out that Vodou is done to hurt somebody and has nothing to do with wellness. It’s just the opposite,” Zenju offers.
“I am completely called to Vodou because I’m a descendant of Africans who were taken away from their home. After that, most of us were unable to fully practice our Indigenous practices. But I think there’s some imprints in us that call us to particular African Indigenous practices,” Zenju continued. “For me, it’s been Vodou. Vodou means spirit. I’ve gotten a lot of information by drumming. I’m a drummer. That is far from sitting, but it’s very concentrated. The sounds and the rhythms open you up just as much as sitting. Stillness and quiet is not the only way. Whatever that thing is that opens you, you have to find it.”
Even church is Shamanic
Q: “You write that, ‘Zen leaned away from rituals and acknowledging itself as shamanic for fear of being mistaken for new age, witchcraft or Vodou.’ It seems to me that anti-ritual attitudes are rooted in a modern Western belief that Indigenous practices are backwards and need to be refined. And this belief has supported colonialism, racism and violence.”
A: “When people say, ‘I don’t want to do a ritual, I don’t like ceremony, I just do Zen,’ then there’s something in there. When people say they dislike something primal, it’s because they associate it with being uncivilized. It’s like what we see in movies with the ways Indigenous cultures are depicted. That’s what I’m asking people to look at,” Zenju told the Sentinel.
“None of that has come up in any of the interviews I’ve had so far. And that’s one of the most important things in my book! So, I’m glad we’re talking about it. One guy said, ‘I heard you talking about all these different rituals, but the focus of Zen is just zazen.’ And I said, ‘Yeah, that’s the biggest ritual of them all!’ I’m thinking, ‘What happened in your mind, in which you could not hold that zazen is a ritual?’ If we can release our negative ideas about ritual and ceremony, we can begin to see a more integrated way.
“Even church is shamanic!,” Zenju says. “Eating a cracker for the body of Jesus Christ and drinking grape juice for his blood? Completely shamanic! Mostly, Zen is a lot of incense and flower offerings and eating. It reminded me of how church was for me; everybody’s in church together, babies and old folk. A Buddhist abbott asked me what kind of Zen Center I would establish and I said, ‘Well, there’d be a lot of children and grandparents, music and a whole lot of food.’ And he said, ‘Wow! That’s how they do it in Thailand!’ I said, ‘Yeah, that’s kind of how colored people do it.’ Everywhere you go, in every practice, the whole community’s there.”
Systemic oppression
Q: “In ‘Shamanic Roots of Zen,’ you write, ‘There is no religion or spiritual community in the United States that is without systemic oppression.’ And, ‘Beginning very early in the colonial era, there have been violent efforts, including the annihilation of African and Native American medicine people, and the burning of those accused as witches to suppress that which was viewed as magic.’”
A: “There are political and social ramifications of not respecting Indigenous ritual. Not understanding it, or respecting it, can lead to some horrific experiences like genocide, massacre, slavery and things like this. We were hoping things wouldn’t go back to “normal” after the pandemic. And there is no way for us to go back. But what’s happening now is that the social structures are still there and they’re still crumbling. We’re trying to fit ourselves back into the structures but we ourselves have changed. We’re still in these structures because we didn’t build anything new. Over time, things will begin to show themself, but we have to take time to be in the darkness,” Zenju said.
“My next book is called ‘Opening to Darkness: Eight Gateways for Being with the Absence of Light in Unsettling Times.’ It’s coming out in March, 2023. I’m bringing all of my transmissions in this book; Vodou and Buddhism. It’s integral because we are in an integral world. None of us are only that or only this. And it’s hard for us to be with darkness. We long for the light. Now, it’s mask on, mask off, mask on. OK, wear a mask, period! This pandemic is ongoing. It doesn’t matter if you had a shot, or you had COVID; put your mask on if you’re not feeling well. Try to protect others – that should be a new way of being! This is something we’re learning. And it’s transitional. Everything’s transitional.”
Listen to this interview with Zenju Earthlyn Manuel today at noon on KZSC 88.1 FM / kzsc.org on Transformation Highway with John Malkin.